INTERVIEW
FOR LIVRAISION
Interview for Livraison – Private issue – No 1
Spring/Winter 2005
Fluxus Heidelberg – Litsa Spathi & Ruud Janssen
By:
This
interview is published in the first issue of the Swedish magazine Livraison.
More details and ordering info for this magazine you can find on: www.livraison.se
The questions & answers:
01 The other day I told some
people at my work
how happy I was, that I actually was about to interview Fluxus-people. They didn’t know what Fluxus was! Why?
Ruud
Janssen: In art-circles Fluxus is something which is quite well known. Modern
schoolbooks on art-history even include a part on the subject Fluxus and what
it has started. Yet, some people never learned art-history at school. Maybe
followed the wrong schools, wrong subjects. They just as well might have
forgotten it.
Litsa
Spathi: That isn’t a nice answer for a
first question Ruud. Now you are embarrassing and offending the colleagues of
Marie Birde!
Ruud: Yes
maybe, but if her colleagues don’t know what Fluxus is, it tells more about her colleagues than
about what Fluxus is.
Litsa:
Still, that isn’t a nice answer!
Ruud:
Should I delete it then?
Litsa: yes,
you should.
Ruud: O.K.
I’ll delete it and we’ll let Marie ask her the next question.
Litsa: But
we still haven’t got an answer then.
Ruud: She
only asks “why”!
02 Why is it important to put yourself in a
bigger context?
Litsa: How
did she know we put ourselves in a bigger context? Did you e-mail her that in
advance Ruud?
Ruud: No,
not really. Maybe she has got it from our site www.fluxusheidelberg.org . Anybody can access that! If she went through it she could know that
we work that way.
Litsa:
Shouldn’t we just answer those questions rather than discussing them?
Ruud: You
are so right. Can you start?
Litsa: Ok,
I will.
Ruud: Just
a second. I will type down your name and will type down your exact words.
Litsa: Let
me give an example. When I was asked to do a Fluxus-performance at the VHS (a center
for adult education) in Heidelberg, in honor of their 50th
anniversary, I choose for the subject “Without borders” (in German:
“Grenzenlos”). In a briefcase I collected self-made objects and object-books that were connected to the most important
issues that one encounters in life. Themes like pain, wine, bread, joy, life an
death. A sample is the object-book “Love poems in test tubes”. As part of the
performance I presented all the objects and object-books, and for this one I
took out each individual test tube. With each tube I explained the content and
the connections to the total. Through this everybody should find and create the
poem inside his head. The goal was to connect the voidness with the meaning of life. The impossible is
then a possibility. The Public was enthusiast
03 What is your definition of art?
Ruud: I’ll
look it up in a dictionary. The definition of art is easy to find there. A is
the first letter in the Alphabet.
Litsa: Yes,
but is that OUR definition of art?
Ruud: eh……
Litsa: This
is something I have told already in many interviews. My art is a part of my
life and my life is a part of my art. All what I do is a result of what I
experience and what come on my way. If it is called art, so be it.
Ruud: Well,
I think art is the combination of life and the possibility to project the
visions with certain techniques onto certain media.
04 What’s more important in your work – the
process or the result? Explain.
Litsa: The
process of course. That is obvious.
Ruud: Yes,
I completely agree!
Litsa:
Shouldn’t we explain why?
Ruud: I
don’t think so. This interview is also a process, but the readers will only
read the result. So the process of the interview is more important than the
result. But the results is all the readers will get. If we explain the process
it only turns into more result. So nobody learns from that.
Litsa: But
by not just giving one answer to each question, and rather discussing the
questions aren’t we documenting the process only?
Ruud: Yes,
that is the result!
05 Where and when do you find the right
feeling?
Ruud: Right
now feels good. Isn’t that the answer?
Litsa: Only
now? For me there is not really a good or a bad moment. I always am able to
produce art, it is a basic need for me. Give me the a chance and I start to
create.
06 When is real life a piece of art? Are some
things in life more art than others?
Ruud: A
typical Duchamp-question. Anything is art. But is something more art that art?
Litsa: Art
is always a transformation of life-experiences. Truth with future visions.
Things that are there will always be transferred into art. The question is
only: “how is this done?”
Ruud:
Sometimes a painting can be the result, but some events just call for a
performance.
Litsa: The
cutting of the red Cabbage, that performance is a nice example.
07 The art-scene is often considered to be very
intellectual. Why is that and exactly how intellectual is it (in your opinion)?
Litsa: The
art of today takes refuge in the ivory towers and cloud-cuckoo lands of
aesthetics. The themes in today’s art-scene are sometimes so abstract,
artificial, and far away from life. People have problems in understanding what
it means.
08 Is art that is put in museums better art?
Why? Why not? Do you think the museums are doing a good job?
Ruud:
Certainly they are doing something right. If there weren’t museums, a lot of
art wouldn’t have survived the last centuries. Whether the art in museums is
the better art or not is another thing. Museums buy artworks through their
connections. Only when an artists is part of such a connection there is a
possibility to get ones art into a museum.
Litsa:
Better art? I don’t think so. Often we walk through museums looking at the
paintings and think: “boring, boring, boring….. Why do they hang here?”
Ruud: Or do
you remember we were in that museum of modern art where we saw this small
drawing of Picasso. I believe he himself would have thrown it away. But
probably somebody found it, and because it IS a Picasso drawing it is
exhibited. Not because it is a good piece of art. This pencil drawing was put
in a golden frame. Yes, the frame was quite well done.
09 What’s more important; to challenge yourself
or your audience? Why?
Litsa: Both
are important. For my performances, my drawings and paintings. In the press my
work is sometimes called provocative. Sometimes also the audience tells this
after an exhibition or a performance. But are they?
Ruud: Yes,
sometimes your work is provocative, but people can only be provoked when they don’t
understand which part of life your work deals with. Life itself is always
challenging.
Litsa: What
is expected of art is that the transformation is suitable for the
public/audience. When one shows a feeling which is too painful, to heavy, not
acceptable for the general public, then it just is experienced as provocative
because the audience/public can’t deal with it. Still my art has as goal to
provoke, so yes, challenge the audience. A nice example is my latest exhibition
“Metamorphosen” here in Palais Hirsch, Schwetzingen. It sure was provoking the public,
but here it was also a challenge for me to express thoughts and emotions which
are forced upon me from the past and my present. Also future visions, fear and
pain are shown. Pain is not a pleasant theme for the audience, I know. They
don’t enjoy seeing that. Still I show it. It provokes, and that is maybe a
bigger challenge.
10 What do you do/say to motivate others to be
part of your projects?
Litsa:
There are two categories of people. The once that are willing to take
part, and those who don’t want to be involved. Trying to motivate isn’t an
option. Either people do take part in projects because they are open and
curious. Or people are rejecting.
Ruud: Some
projects don’t involve others. But if there are others one want to let take
part, a simple invitation is mostly enough. Just explain in a correct way what
is the goal and what is expected. It is a simple as you doing this interview.
11 In what way can you and the Fluxus-movement make the world to a better place?
Litsa: Oh
my God, a better place? I am not a “Miss
World”. These girls mostly say these kind of sentences. Fluxus is a anti-movement, but making the world
better isn’t its goal. Fluxus- and conceptual artist see art as a natural
process. The realization comes second to the impulse.
Ruud:
Showing in what kind of world the people live in is more of a goal. So confronting them
with how we see the world is more how you could call it. If people realize
this, it is up to them if it changes something for them. For better or worse.
12 Artist Jenny Holzer says: “Protect me from
what I want”. What do you think I should protect myself from?
Litsa: It
would be interesting to know in which context she said this sentence. When one realizes all ones dreams
and visions it could even mean the end of mankind. Nuclear bombs, Chemical
weapons, etc. This sentence “Protect me from what I want” also could be a kind
of prison. I am not allowed to make mistakes, to act as a free person. As a
free person I should do the things I want. Including the chance to make
mistakes. You should find out yourself if you need to be protected from. Maybe
from my views?
13 Sometimes my friends trick me and tell me
they are somebody else. What is the best way to know you are you?
Litsa: I
don’t think your friends are playing trick with you. More likely they are
playing tricks with themselves. They pretend to be someone else. So they take
temporarily the identity of someone else. They use another name, feel like
being in another body, so they can actually be someone else. Their known
personality is being left behind.
Ruud: The
essence of a Fluxus-performance.
Litsa: Yes.
I am certain that a person can be either one, none or hundred thousand
personalities, like L. Pirandello writes. An artists can find all these identities in him/herself.
14 What is the last thing you learned from
life?
Ruud: That
it passes by quickly and life is short. So many things one wants to do and yet
so little time to realize it all.
Litsa:
Tomorrow I will be younger.
15 What four elements does the world consist
of, to you?
Litsa: One
of them is Fish.
Ruud: One
of them surely if fire
Litsa:
There is also the Firefish!
Ruud: In
which part of the world is that found?
Litsa: In
this interview that isn’t important. We first should decide whether a Firefish
is an element?
Ruud: In
mathematics a fish can be an element. So yes. If we agree
that Firefish is one of the elements, we only need three more.
Litsa: The
second one is utopia. The third one is love. The fourth one is memory.
Ruud: Can’t
we combine them into one element. Something like Utolovelymemory?
Litsa:
Never.
Heidelberg,
30-10-2004
Litsa Spathi & Ruud Janssen
© 2005 by Fluxus Heidelberg Center
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